August 16, 2011

Bradley and Karen play and comment on a talk recording of Aaron Williamson's and Karen's presentation at OSCON 2011, entitled Legal Basics for Developers.

Running time: 00:53:53.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:33)

• Bradley mentioned the birthday attack when explaining to Karen how likely it might be that the number of the show might match the number of the day. (01:38)
• This show is a recording of Aaron and Karen's OSCON 2011 talk, Legal Basics for Developers. (02:20)

Segment 1 (05:53)

• The slides for the Legal Basics for Developers are available to follow along with the recording (05:53)

Segment 2 (49:36)

• Richard Fontana gave at a talk at OSCON as well, which was recorded, and Karen and Bradley have asked for his permission to play it. (50:45)
• Bradley asked folks to ping Richard on identi.ca to ask him to allow us to use his audio on the oggcast. (51:05)

Tags: bkuhn, karen, non-commercial, sflc, oscon, fontana, creative-commons, aaronw, patents, copyrights, trademarks, public domain, license compatibility, compliance, non-profits, gnome, questions, conferences, gpl

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June 21, 2011

Karen announces her new job, and Bradley and Karen discuss the recent USA Supreme Court decisions on patents.

Running time: 00:54:31.

Show Notes

Be sure to make sure your feeds available on faif.us if you haven't already!

Show Notes:

Segment 0 (00:37)

• If you have not moved your RSS feed already away from softwarefreedom.org, and to faif.us, you should do that now! Here's links to the ogg RSS feed and mp3 RSS feed. New FaiF shows won't appear on softwarefreedom.org.
• Karen is now the Executive Director of the GNOME Foundation. (04:30)
• Bradley served on the GNOME Foundation Executive Director Hiring Committee, but resigned when Karen became a serious candidate. (05:13)
• Karen will continue as General Counsel of Question Copyright, and pro-bono counsel to Software Freedom Conservancy. She will also continue pro bono on some matters for SFLC. (06:30)
• Bradley has been working on GNU Bash. (07:34)
• Berlin's Tegel airport is closing soon. (14:40)
• Bradley mentioned that he incorrectly said in 0x11 that Red Hat doesn't provide sources publicly for RHEL. The RHEL SRPMS are actually on Red Hat's FTP site. (18:20)
• There are various identica threads on the RHEL issue from 0x11.(18:47)
• Bradley has previously explained the history of the term “punditocracy” in episode 0x0A. (27:46)

Segment 1 (28:58)

• Bradley and Karen discuss the USA Supreme Court decision in the Global-Tech Appliances, Inc. v. SEB S. A. case, on which SFLC submitted an amicus brief, which was previously discussed in FaiF Episode 0x05. (29:55)
• Bradley and Karen discuss the USA Supreme Court decision in the Microsoft Corp. v. i4i Ltd. Partnership case, on which the EFF submitted an amicus brief. (40:11)

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, patents, gnome

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February 15, 2011

Bradley and Karen discuss types of copyleft generally and introduce the basics of license compatibility and -or-later clauses.

Running time: 00:41:57.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:38)

• This show discusses copyleft and basic issues of license compatibility (04:09)
• Karen mentioned an episode of the old Software Freedom Law Show, Episode 0x08, where Bradley and Karen discussed selecting a FLOSS license and what the various options are. (04:45)
• license compatibility 06:28
• Bradley incorrectly said that the original Emacs license didn't have the word General in it. However, the other explanations appear to be correct. There's a useful history page that someone wrote about the history of GPL. It appears the non-general GNU copylefts existed from 1984-1988. (06:57)
• Karen noted that the Library GPL was renamed to the Lesser GPL which happened in 1999. (09:30)
• Bradley mentioned that when he and RMS worked on the GNU Classpath Exception, Bradley suggested it be called the Least GPL. (10:38)
• GPL doesn't have a choice of law clause. If a another copyleft does, it surely is incompatible with the GPL. (14:17)
• AGPLv3 § 13 and GPLv3 § 13 explicitly make themselves compatibility with each other, which Bradley calls compatibility by fiat. (15:40)
• Karen mentioned that the Mozilla Public License § 13 has a section about multiple licensed code (16:50).
• Bradley mentioned that Mozilla Firefox uses a combinatorial license: (GPL|LGPL|MPL), which is a disjunctive tri-license. (19:00).
• Bradley mentioned that the old Software Freedom Law Show Episode 0x17 discussed compatibility of permissively licensed software and copylefted software. (20:22 )
• Apache Software License 2.0 was likely the first FLOSS license to have an explicit patent licensing provision (23:40)
• Bradley and Karen discussed the fact that -only vs. -or-later are options with the GPL, while they are not with other copylefts, such as CC-By-SA. (30:11)

Tags: agpl, license compatibility, copyrights, gpl, bkuhn, gplv3, karen, sflc, fsf, mpl, or-later

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January 18, 2011

Bradley and Karen discuss a few corrections from previous shows, and then discuss misunderstandings about the GPL regarding “revocation” of the GPL.

Running time: 00:44:45.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:34)

• Bradley issued a correction regarding FaiF 0x06. Christopher Allan Webber mentioned that FSF sometimes accepts copyright assignments in cases where the entire code base is not assigned. (02:40)
• Karen issued a correction regarding FaiF 0x04 about women being hired to be at the party, but in fact that was not the case, despite being mentioned in this article.
• Karen's paper on Medical Devices was linked to from a ZD Net UK blog. (05:48)
• Bradley mentioned this Android bug regarding mis-sent SMS, which was widely covered in the press. Apparently the bug has been resolved upstream, somewhat disproving Bradley's point. (08:40)

Segment 1 (12:19)

• Bradley is quoted in an article about revocation of the GPL (12:35).
• The story was originalyl covered on slashdot. (13:17)
• The WinMTR site now says: By popular request, WinMTR will be available under GPL v2. (19:50)
• Karen mentioned the FSF's GPL FAQ. (29:27)
• Bradley mentioned the four rationale documents There's also one for AGPLv3 draft 2 and LGPLv3 draft 2. (30:13)

Tags: bkuhn, copyrights, gpl, medical-devices, conferences, karen, sflc, fsf, correction, revocation

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December 21, 2010

Bradley and Karen welcome special co-presenter and guest, Aaron Williamson, to discuss the OpenBSD email regarding purported FBI backdoors. In the main segment, they discuss the amicus brief filed by SFLC (where Aaron and Karen work) in the Global-Tech Appliances v. SEB USA Supreme Court case.

Running time: 00:54:59.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:37)

• Aaron brought up a message forwarded to the OpenBSD developers list by Theo de Raadt. This story has been covered widely online. (02:50)
• Aaron mentioned that Glyn Moody wrote a blog post about what issues about “Open Source” security this raises. (04:06)
• Bradley mentioned the gnuftp/Savannah site crack that occurred in 2003 and its security implications. Those seeking more information on this can read the slashdot coverage, Savannah forum posts, the CERT advisory and even the missing files still on the GNU FTP site. (05:21)
• Bradley again mentioned Thompson's hack which he loves to mention when security issues come up (06:26).
• Karen mentioned SFLC's medical devices paper, Killed by Code: Software Transparency in Implantable Medical Devices, which she loves to mention. (08:23)
• Bradley mentioned the Debian/Ubuntu OpenSSL bug that occurred in mid-2008, which was widely discussed online. (10:18)
• Bradley mentioned a case in 2000 where the FBI was able to open a mobster's PGP mail merely by getting his passphrase. (12:49)
• Bradley offers an even-money bet that there are no FBI-inserted bugs in OpenBSD. (13:46)

Segment 1 (14:18)

• The canonical page on Wikipedia for what Karen and Bradley are on FaiF says they are presenters, rather than hosts. (15:06)
• Aaron and Karen's organization, the Software Freedom Law Center, announced that they filed an amicus brief in the Global-Tech Appliances v. SEB case. (16:30)
• Despite the beliefs of a Jeopardy! contestant last month, “Maria” is Sonia Sotomayor's middle name. Antonin Scalia's middle name is “Gregory” (17:20)
• Bradley again reviewed the issues of classical vs. church pronunciations. (19:20)
• Bradley asked Aaron if what was being sold in this case was equivalent to the Cornballer as introduced on the television show, Arrested Development. (20:30)
• Bradley mentioned that on FaiF 0x02, they discussed the issue of how higher courts consider issues of law more than the detailed facts of the case. (23:30)
• RMS's speech, The Danger of Software Patents, is available as a transcript and audio (ogg) (35:22)
• Aaron mentioned Newegg's brief, which is a reseller. (40:50)
• Aaron mentioned the SCOTUS blog summary which included links to other amici briefs. (41:01)
• Bradley referenced Don's staff answer to their boss, Don, in the Kids in the Hall movie, Brain Candy. (45:57)

Final (54:16)

• Aaron, Karen and Bradley are discussing the alternative lyrics to the Stars and Stripes Forever (54:20)

These show notes are Copyright © 2010, Karen Sandler and Bradley M. Kuhn of Free as in Freedom, and are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share-Alike 3.0 Unported license (CC-By-SA-3.0 Unported).

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, patents, aaronw

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October 6, 2010

Bradley and Karen announced that the Software Freedom Law Show is over. Karen and Bradley announced a new show, called Free as in Freedom, that is a joint effort by Karen (still at the SFLC) and Bradley (no longer at SFLC).

Running time: 00:32:32.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:28)

• Bradley mentioned OsamaK is not happy at Bradley and Karen for not having a new oggcast for a month. (00:45)
• Bradley no long works at the Software Freedom Law Center. He now works full time at the Software Freedom Conservancy. (02:00)
• Bradley thinks everything related to FLOSS should be called “Software Freedom”. (03:10)
• Karen and Bradley mention that many people in the software freedom world are involved in multiple organizations. (04:00)
• Karen is an officer and lawyer to Software Freedom Conservancy. (04:30)
• Conservancy provides non-profit infrastructure and services. (05:10)
• Conservancy helps software freedom projects focus on development, and aggregate projects into one place. (06:20)
• Conservancy will be expanding its service plan now that Bradley is full time. (06:46)
• Conservancy will try do copyright assignment in a community-focused way, only if the developers want it. Conservancy will also do much more GPL enforcement than it has previously. (07:20)
• Bradley mentioned that Matthew Garrett has been doing some GPL enforcement, and Bradley thanked him for it publicly. (07:50)
• Karen thinks we'll see more enforcement over time, by more people. (08:14)
• Bradley wants to help Conservancy's member projects do more fundraising for initiatives to fund software development activity. (08:40)
• Bradley mentioned that Matt Mackall is doing Mercurial development funded through Conservancy. (09:20)
• As of earlier this year, Bradley is a volunteer director of the FSF, and now has additional volunteer work that he needs to do, while Conservancy (his former volunteer work) becomes his day job. (11:09)
• Bradley mentions that once you start doing something in the software freedom world, it's hard to stop once people start to rely on your work. (12:30)
• Conservancy handles a lot of “boring” but essential stuff for developers to continue in their project. (14:20)
• Bradley mentioned that his early volunteer work at FSF was also doing the boring stuff, and indeed a lot of his work has been willing to do the boring stuff (15:30)
• Karen mentions that no one fights over the work that just needs to get done. (16:30)
• Bradley discussed the fact that for-profit corporate control of projects is dangerous, and one of the things Conservancy and similar non-profits offers is an opportunity to have a non-profit with the public interest at heart in the center of their community. (17:39)
• Bradley mentioned the LibreOffice by the Document Foundation (18:03)
• Karen points out that for-profit and non-profit go hand-in-hand. But, Bradley argues that steward of a FLOSS project should always be a non-profit. Karen agrees. (19:00-19:30)
• Bradley doesn't really believe that there are projects that would “never happen” without a for-profit company starting it. Karen disagrees.
• The Software Freedom Law Show is over This is the last episode of the Software Freedom Law Show. (21:10)
• Karen will make sure that the SFLC RSS feeds remain valid. Bradley points out that there are new RSS feeds for both the mp3 version and the ogg version of the new show, Free as in Freedom (21:33, 22:41)
• The new show is basically just the Karen and Bradley show, now named Free as in Freedom, hosted on faif.us. (23:43)
• Bradley mentioned that everywhere he's ever worked, he always had root on most of the boxes. He doesn't know what it's like to work somewhere and not have root. (27:50)
• Karen got in trouble at her first law firm job for installing software on computers. (28:21)
• Dan Scott sent a gift to Bradley and Karen Soap with 20-Ds in them.

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, conservancy, non-profits

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August 17, 2010

Karen and Bradley discuss the enforcement activities of the Software Freedom Conservancy, recent conferences and medical devices.

Running time: 35:21.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:33)

• Bradley is President of the Software Freedom Conservancy, and Karen is one of the Conservancy's pro bono lawyers. Karen is also an officer of the Conservancy, and Bradley is a director of the FSF. Got that?(03:17)
• Thanks for sending us your ideas!(06:22)
• The SFLC is not the EFF, despite what slashdot says.(09:18)
• To learn more about the default judgment you can read the court's opinion or listen to Episode 0x29.
• If you liked Episode 0x21, you should check out the paper that SFLC published about software transparency on medical devices (25:05).

Tags: compliance, gpl, medical-devices, bkuhn, karen, sflc, fsf, conservancy

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June 8, 2010

Karen, Bradley and Aaron talk about SFLC's motion for default judgment against Westinghouse Digital Electronics, a defendant in the ongoing lawsuit concerning GPL violations of BusyBox.

Running time: 38:15.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:33)

• Bradley quoted from Act I Scene II of Hamlet, in which he once played Bernardo in a college production. Karen never played Bernardo (01:02)
• Aaron mentioned Shakespeare's son Hamnet. (01:53)
• The play Karen quotes from is indeed Julius Caesar. She forgot that she also had the lines: “My lord?” and “I will, my lord. ”(02:25)
• The Bilski decision once again did not come out this week. The Supreme Court publishes all decisions on its website. The SCOTUS blog provides up to date information about the court schedule, including a live blog on the mornings when decisions are announced.(03:03)
• Karen thinks that Aaron and Bradley do not know that the cake is a lie. (03:54)
• Karen mentions patent number 3,987,541: Cutting guide for layered cake. (04:39)
• SFLC filed a motion in the Southern District of New York against Westinghouse Digital Electronics, a defendant in the ongoing lawsuit concerning GPL violations of BusyBox. (05:10)
• The original complaint in the ongoing case can be found here. (08:05)
• The motion for default judgment or summary judgment can be found here. (09:00)
• Shira Scheindlin is not related to Judge Judy, at least to the best of our knowledge. (10:23)
• Karen mentioned Serving Sara, so we provide the obligatory IMDB link. Other sources for how service should be provided would probably be more reliable. (15:30)
• Sewer service, as described by Aaron, is invalid service. Or you can use google, but that will mostly teach you about sewers and their maintenance. (18:46)

Tags: compliance, copyrights, gpl, aaronw, bkuhn, karen, sflc, conservancy

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December 22, 2009

Karen and Bradley discuss enforcement of the GNU General Public License, and in particular the lawsuits recently filed by SFLC against various violators of the GPL.

Running time: 00:33:11.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:32)

• Bradley mentioned that FLOSS Weekly had a proprietary software guest, Ubuntu One. (01:02)
• Bradley and Aaron Williamson were interviewed on Linux Outlaws about the GPL violation lawsuit. (01:20)
• Listeners will know Aaron Williamson from when he sat in for Karen on Episode 0x18, and was interviewed on Bradley and Karen on the very special episode about SFLC's amicus brief in Jacobsen v. Katzer. (01:25)
• SFLC announced that it filed a lawsuit regarding GPL enforcement. (02:03)
• Bradley misspoke that Tom Hanks (as a guest on Saturday Night Live) played Mr. No Depth Perception. It was, in fact, Kevin Nealon.
• Karen mentioned Bradley's blog post about finding one violation per day. (08:24)
• Bradley mentioned the WRT54G enforcement against Linksys that spawned communities like OpenWRT. (11:36)
• Bradley mentioned that getting build instructions and scripts to control compilation and installation of the executable (GPLv2), or Installation Information (v3). (16:57)

Segment 1 (17:50)

• SFLC's A Practical Guide to GPL Compliance outlines requirements commonly asked of violators when bringing them back into compliance. (18:02)

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, gplv3, copyrights, gpl

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April 28, 2009

Karen and Bradley discuss the intersections of software patents with FLOSS licenses. They give a general overview of how patents generally interact with FLOSS, and then discuss the patent provisions of specific FLOSS licenses.

Running time: 00:46:50.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:35)

• Bradley suggests that more knowledgeable listeners might want to skip the first segment. (02:22)
• RMS rightly dislikes the term “intellectual property”. He's written about it often. (02:58)
• Karen noted that the USPTO uses term property to describe patents, which Bradley points out isn't actually accurate. (03:10)
• RMS didn't invent, although he did popularize the phrase , “perpetual copyright on the installment plan”. (05:08)
• The USPTO website confirms that the term limits on patents are 20 years. (05:25)
• Bradley mentioned that RSA Data Security, Inc. liberated the RSA a patent a few weeks before it expired. (05:40)
• Bradley and Karen explained what patent trolls are. (08:50)
• The patent section of SFLC's legal guide explains the interactions of FLOSS with the patent system, including covering issues such as what a patent is and what willful infringement is. (10:36)
• Bradley mentioned that Jeremy Allison gave an award reading FATtest Patent Troll to Sam Ramji at the Linux Collaboration Summit, although the only URL we could find documenting this is a identica statement by Bradley himself. (14:25)

Segment 1 (15:08)

• Bradley noted that GPL is a copyright license. This is discussed in detail in the Copyright section of SFLC's legal guide. (16:03)
• GPLv2§6 and GPLv2§7 are the two sections that might interact with patent issues, particularly §7. (20:30)
• Our colleague, Dan Ravicher, has often spoken about the implied patent license GPLv2 grants, including in seminars run by the FSF itself. (21:20)
• Bradley attempted to concisely explain the patent provisions of GPLv3 (mostly in §11). (27:20)
• Bradley mentioned the discussions in the GPLv3 Drafting committees, such as Committee B and Committee C (29:53).
• Ultimately, Bradley took 8 minutes exactly, not counting Karen's 28 second interruption. That's pretty concise, he thinks.
• GPLv3§12 is nearly identical to GPLv2§7. (37:18)

Segment 2 (38:20)

• Bradley explained the patent provisions of the Apache 2.0 license.
• Bradley and Karen discussed SFLC's work against the Blackboard patent. There were news items on SFLC's site when the reexam was filed and when the USPTO ordered the reexam. (42:05)

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, gplv3, patents

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March 31, 2009

This episode is primarily composed of a recorded speech that Bradley made on complying with the GPL. An introduction and wrap-up segment with Bradley and Karen is included.

Note: The audio available for this podcast between 06:06 and 10:45 US/Eastern on 31 March 2009 had a mono/stereo issue. That has been corrected. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Running time: 00:56:26.

Show Notes

Segment 0 (00:29)

• Bradley mentioned being a member of ΥΠΕ (aka UPE), the Computer Science Honors Society, and that their year of founding appears on the seal in binary. Bradley was correct about this, but said the wrong year during the show. The year is actually 1967, which is 11110101111. (01:30)
• The Mayan numbering system was actually base 20, which is close enough to 10 that Bradley's point probably isn't valid, and he awaits for the 2, 8 or 16 base culture to be founded. (02:38)
• Bradley mentioned using the NATO alphabet to read off hexadecimal numbers. (05:53)

Segment 1 (06:53)

You can follow along with the slides during this segment.

To follow along with the slides, note the time indices at the end of each bullet point. When the time on the podcast reaches the index listed at the end of a given bullet point, it is time to switch to the next bullet point (with space). The slides should work in any Javascript-enabled browser.

Segment 2 (52:58)

The Compliance Guide has since been made available since the talk was recorded. (53:56).

Tags: bkuhn, karen, sflc, gplv3, compliance

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January 20, 2009

In a speech recorded in December 2008, Eben Moglen speaks about the origins of copyright and patents from a historical perspective.

Running time: 00:54:50.

Show Notes

This episode features a recording of Eben Moglen's keynote, entitled Collaborative Innovation for Development: Enlarging the Global Commons at the Knowledge Commons' Collaborative Innovation for Development conference on Enlarging the Global Commons in New Delhi, India on 6 December 2008.

In the speech, Eben discusses in depth the origins of the copyright and patent system, and how Free Software interacts with that history.

Tags: sflc, moglen

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November 11, 2008

The Software Freedom Law Center is proud to announce its new podcast, The Software Freedom Law Show. Hosted by Bradley M. Kuhn and Karen Sandler, this bi-weekly podcast will bring interviews and explanations on legal issues related to Free, Libre and Open Software Software (FLOSS).

Our first episode introduces the format and the hosts interview each other so you can get to know them better.

Running time: 00:32:39.

Show Notes

Our first episode introduces the format and the hosts.

Segment 0 (at 00:23)

• Numbering of the Episode
  • Dijkstra's article, Why numbering should start at zero.(00:49)
  • Karen mentioned the Zeroth law of Thermodynamics (00:52)
  • Bradley referred to the laws of robotics, to which Asimov added a Zeroth Law in his later books (making the law the first in priority of application, if not first in order of appearance). (00:52)
  • Bradley is a “Podcast Monitor”, not a “Hall monitor”. (01:30)
• SFLC
• An article announcing the founding of SFLC in March 2005 (02:43).
• The team of SFLC (04:50)
• Karen mentioned attorney client privilege which may be a term unfamiliar to our hacker listeners. (07:16)
• We mentioned that SFLC (and Conservancy) are each 501(c)(3) charities in the USA. (07:37)
• If your not-for-profit FLOSS project needs legal help, write to <help@softwarefreedom.org>.
• Software Freedom Conservancy
• An article that announced formation of the Conservancy.
• Karen mentioned that Conservancy helps projects handle their Google Summer of Code funds. (08:46)
• A discussion of umbrella organizations is contained in SFLC's legal primer. (12:11)
• Conservancy's Board of Directors is different from SFLC's, since they are separate organizations. (15:13)
• If your not-for-profit FLOSS project is looking for a non-profit, incorporate organizational home, write to <conservancy@softwarefreedom.org>.

Segment 1 (at 16:17)

• For the curious: NYC Noise Ordinance regarding emergency vehicles. (16:30)
• Hiawatha Bray often called the FSF Cambridge-based, as he did in this article about the SCO law suit. (17:20)
• Bradley's first Unix system was an AT&T 3B2/600. It ran System V R3, which didn't have streams (the SYSV equivalent to sockets). (18:18)
• The vi Lovers homepage says it's pronounced “vee eye”. Bradley doesn't love vi, so he'll go back to saying “vye”. (18:40)
• Bradley couldn't find a good web page that discussed the full history of Backspace vs. DEL in Emacs, but the Emacs Wiki hints at the controversy. (19:30)
• Bradley briefly mentioned the Xemacs fork. (19:40)
• Bradley mentioned The GNU Manifesto. (20:07)
• Bradley probably had his dates mixed up of his first GNU/Linux install. 0.99pl12 came out in early 1993, so he probably installed SLS in early 1993 during his sophomore year in college. He found his Xconfig file from his old laptop with a filedate of 15 December 1993. (Remember when you had to write Xconfigs by hand and they would break your monitor if you did it wrong?) (20:44)
• Bradley mentioned helping RMS start the license list. Here's the earliest known web archived version and its modern decendent. (21:28)
• Bradley stopped using Quicken in 2000 in favor of Gnucash, but he actually uses Ledger now. (22:30)
• Karen indicates Fortan is still relevant, and the Wikipedia entry seems to agree. (24:21)
• Chairman of SFLC's Board, and its Director-Counsel, Eben Moglen, is also a law professor at Columbia University, and was Karen's professor in Law School. (25:28)
• Karen mentioned doing a “Choose your own essay” program in C for Eben when she was law school, based on the idea of Choose Your Own Adventure books, which both Karen and Bradley read as children. (25:43)
• Bradley mentioned Eben and Larry Wall both being influenced by APL. Bradley is sure, although it doesn't seem to appear in the transcripts, that during one of his early State of the Onion speeches, Larry joked that he'd use Unicode Perl operators to reinvent APL. (26:20)
• Bradley mentioned his Master's thesis and the Parrot project. (26:42)
• We mentioned that law school is extremely expensive. (27:50)

Trackbacks

(Done by hand, currently. ;)

• Our producer, Dan Lynch, blogged about the start of the show, and also started a thread in the Linux Outlaws forum.

Tags: bkuhn, karen, numbering, fsf, sflc, conservancy